Transcript
Brian Erickson:
Thanks for joining the Cardwell Beach Marketing Podcast. My name is Brian Erickson, Chief Strategy Officer and Partner at Cardwell Beach. In this series, we’re interviewing senior marketers across industries to develop perspective on what marketing will look like in a post-COVID-19 world. Today’s guest is Tapas Bose, the Chief Marketing Technology and Solutions Architect at Wiley, a major academic publisher. Prior to joining Wiley, Tapas was the Chief Information Architect for the Department of Health and Human Services in Nebraska and Arkansas. Tapas, thanks so much for joining us today.
Tapas Bose:
Thank you.
Brian Erickson:
We’re pretty far into the COVID-19 storm here, and we’ve all been weathering it for quite a while. But I guess for the past two to three years, you’ve been building a marketing technology infrastructure for Wiley. How has the pandemic influenced that marketing technology structure, and what are some of the key performance indicators, tech-wise, that are driving decisions right now?
Tapas Bose:
Yeah, the pandemic accelerated certain trends, which we were seeing, and that’s all that it did. So one of the obvious things that has happened is that all engagements have become more virtual, which means that it is far more important now to have webinars, to have interactive videos, to have the ability to measure the engagement on virtual channels with the customer. And previously, most of it was on the B2C channels, B2C customers. But we now do it for even B2B customers because previously, B2B customers were mostly approached in person. And now that is no longer possible, we have to, through virtual medium, capture the engagement, score their engagement, and then proceed upon nurturing and conversion, measurements which have become important. The trends, if I might say, are one, that we are using more of virtual channels, that means that more of webinars, more about webinars, which has two-way video, because some software do not have two-way video capabilities.
We have interactive content gaming, we have the ability to call somebody from within a meeting, or from within an event, which would be a personal call. And then as we do it, we are able to record the conversation, and then later on, use that to analyze the sentiment, and based upon that, we take the next steps. So what do we measure? One, if he come to a webinar, we measure things like his responses to polls. How active has he been? His responses, his questions, what type of questions are they? We prefer close-ended rather than open-ended questions because close-ended questions help us to narrow down his needs further. Now, coming to a different channel, let’s say interactive video. In interactive video, we, again, can measure the level of engagement based upon different types of tracking scripts that we might place in that mechanism. Also, when we engage, we have now also moved on to newer channels, and we are setting up ads, and setting up interactive content, which we measure on those newer channels.
Then, what has now become more important is previously, we were not so conscious about things like customer service. Now, we have added new measures of customer service, and measure them because for B2B conversions, and for repeat customers, or for upsells, and cross-sells, it is important to that customer service is of the highest order. And previously, we used to be able to make amends by meeting somebody in person, but now we cannot have that luxury, so we bring customer service to a quality which will sustain this kind of selling, reselling, and upselling, efforts on its own.
Brian Erickson:
I’m sure that there are obviously many aspects of the technical architecture that have been challenging to adapt on the fly as the pandemic set in. But I guess, there’s a lot of organizational culture that goes into technology and the way that it’s implemented. Have you faced any challenges in terms of getting adoption across the organization, for technologies that had to be implemented in short order? Or how has the pandemic changed the way that people view data within the business?
Tapas Bose:
Data has become an even more important asset. It was always an important asset, but getting insights from data is even more important. Previously, somebody who interacted directly with a potential customer, or a customer, used to be able to gauge things from body language, et cetera. Now, while you can do that a little bit from, let’s say, webinars which have two-way video, but not as much as being in an informal lunch with somebody, and then noting things which you would not have noted otherwise. There is no such thing as virtual lunch. We have had to train people to become far more cognizant of insight that we can generate from data. We are generating newer insights from data, and that is being used to drive interactions further. That’s one.
The second is, the newer technologies, most of them are cloud-based. So that requires an appreciation of some additional technical knowledge. For example, what does scale represent in cloud? What are certain things that we do not do when we talk to somebody virtually, and that could have compliance implications? For example, we can no longer have the situation where we visit somebody, somebody pays with a credit card, we have a Square app, and you run the Square up. He runs through that. He might as well dictate you a credit card number. In that case, there is additional concerns around PCI compliance, and so on, that we have to take care, and we use software such as Five9, for example, for that purpose. That’s a second kind of orientation change for more B2C customers in this particular aspect, that we had to go through. The third is newer tools, we have bought a lot of new tools, or are in the process of bringing new tools to help marketing technologies.
And many of the people who have been in the company for several years were not trained in that. We have had to subscribe to services, which apart from YouTube, which is of course universally available, where people can train themselves how to use particular software. And use those software in conjunction with the software they are already familiar with. That’s the third type of cultural change that we have brought. If I might bring in a fourth one, a fourth one that we have told most of our front-end account reps, is that we have gone through a level of training, in virtual interactions with them. Which they weren’t previously used to because most of the time, at least a large number of them, used to meet, field reps used to meet customers directly. Now that they can’t, there are certain things that you have to be specially conscious when you are having a virtual interaction. That’s kind of a fourth type of change that we have had to bring through.
Brian Erickson:
It definitely sounds like you have taken a holistic approach to the implementation and roll out of new technologies. And it’s interesting to hear the nuance of how you approach the training and adoption aspects of that, it’s just as important as any of the strategy, or actual technical implementation. If you can’t get people to use it and use it in a consistent way, all for naught there. How has Wiley’s tactical mix of marketing channels changed since the beginning of the pandemic? And are there any specific platforms or tactics that are just going into 2020, you weren’t thinking of at all, that have had a major impact on the marketing mix?
Tapas Bose:
We have had quite a few changes in channels. Quite a few changes in marketing strategies, which have channel impacts. Let’s come to SERP, search optimization. It has become even more important to be in the SERP zero position, which is at the position where your search, or your results, come up as the first item when you search something on Google. And then it goes through step-by-step instructions on how to follow some certain things. Because right now, we have to depend more and more on organic searches. In organic searches, SERP, and being in SERP position zero is important. And that’s true as well for voice-driven searches. When you are not in P0, voice searches are unlikely to bring up your content. That’s one.
The second is, and this is not so much to do with pandemic, but with the increasing use of different types of platforms that have become available. Previously, we did not use that much of platforms such as Instagram and TikTok, but as we’re marketing more aggressively to influencers, who buy this, so think of a university where a course or the content of the course is actually chosen by the professor and by the institution, but the students nevertheless influence that or may have suggestions, which will play into that. But these are the Gen Z generation, and most of them are more on Instagram and TikTok. When we have engaged more on these channels, and therefore, we have more of Instagram ads, for example, more of TikToK ads, something which we never previously engaged in, that’s kind of the second thing.
Then the next thing is, what we call shoppable posts. Previously, there wasn’t a capability, I mean, even in 2018 and early 2019, there wasn’t the capability to create shoppable posts. But now, as things are becoming more virtual, and as let’s say, we have been engaged by universities to market on their behalf, we have created the ability to create shoppable posts, where people may be shopping for courses, and they may be just extension courses, or enrichment courses. And then you use, for example, something on Instagram, which is called Shoppable Post, that is an actual option on Instagram, and then, put a catalog there. The post will have a catalog, and from the catalog itself, you can compare things and then actually sign up, if you wish to. And of course, it will take you through a secure gateway, payment gateway, where you make your payment for to you to apply for finance, and so on. The channels have become far more and more sophisticated, and more diverse as time has gone. Those are three examples where channels spread, that we have had for marketing in the past have increased.
Brian Erickson:
Obviously, academic and institutional clients are the heart of the customers that you serve. And this is a space that’s certainly been deeply impacted by the pandemic, in terms of student enrollment and teaching methods and whatnot. The data that you’re seeing on your end, are there any trends that reflect different ways that your customers are facing these challenges and things that you might not have expected to see that are going to likely take hold for the long-term?
Tapas Bose:
For example, institutions have now offloaded their marketing because they want to reduce their cost, or optimize their costs, from what were advocates that they have for their courses to other companies, or in the process of doing that. That’s one kind of change. They have engaged more AI-driven LMS, or learning management platforms. As a result of which, there are certain types of help which you might have otherwise secured from people you could meet in a university setting, in person. But there would be bots which help you to do that. Or the platform itself senses your difficulties, and makes suggestions to you. It’s again, a bot, which is AI, which is AI-enabled, which sees your difficulties and reacts to it. There is far more reliance of these institutions on external bodies, such as organizations such as us, and other publishing and media and learning companies, who buy courses which are developed by them, in a white label fashion.
And then, they are labeled as university courses, but in effect, they are developed by these companies outside the university. Now, that was a trend that was forming up. It has become even more potent after the pandemic, where there is an increasing accent on cost optimization and increasing need to rely on virtual resources and at the same time deliver newer content. And that’s another type of change that we are seeing. We have seen more reliance on open access articles and things like that, which previously a lot of articles were paid articles. But now there is a move to publish more and more open access articles so that you don’t need to spend extra on them, that is, students. But they are funded by corporations or others who fund this for a variety of purposes. Some of them, because it might contain information in it which is beneficial to these companies, or societies, or organizations, and sometimes, as a measure of a public benefit.
These are some of the ways that universities have tried to diversify. Of course, all enrollments have become virtual. There is more reliance on evaluation of submitted content by different kinds of search and AI-driven algorithms, which are being… There is a non-manual evaluation of certain content, which might be submitted by students. Again, many companies, not really in the publishing world, but in the analytics world, are being tasked to do that. These are some of the changes that we are seeing in schools and universities and colleges.
Brian Erickson:
Just to call out one specific aspect of what you’re talking about here. You’re seeing the marketing function being much more outsourced, or more frequently outsourced, and a greater proportion of that marketing function being outsourced by academic and institutional clients there. What do you think is the driver behind that? Is it primarily a way to optimize costs? Is it lack of the tech capabilities for things like AI? Is it a desire for increased nimbleness? What’s driving that trend?
Tapas Bose:
It’s all of them. So it’s definitely cost optimization. For example, not having to have full-time staff for that and being able to reduce and increase the scale as required. The second is abilities around AI analytics, which some universities, not all, are still quite backward in, and therefore they have to rely on outside resources to do that. In terms of newer platforms, which have come into play, that requires specialized talent which may not be available within the IT departments of these universities. And therefore, there is that reliance on outside companies, not necessarily marketers, but outside technology companies to implement them. And of course, the reliance on content, as such, on outsourcing content, has become important.
In fact, content is the key now, creating and having the ability to create different types of content and being able to render that content in a personalized fashion and in a context-sensitive fashion is key now. Those abilities are not necessarily developed within, except probably the first 10 universities in US. Most of the others outsource it to outside. Even some of the bigger institutions, some even in the Ivy League, have started outsourcing that. There is quite a movement towards that as well.
Brian Erickson:
Cool. Within the academic publishing industry, would you say that that is the biggest shift that’s continued to accelerate as we enter a new normal, or kind of go into COVID?
Tapas Bose:
Yes, it’s not that the COVID kicked off all of it, but COVID has certainly accelerated all that.
Brian Erickson:
Yep, definitely, just pockets of things that have been adopted more rapidly, as we’re all aware, with Zoom, and video conferencing, and whatnot. And education being so highly impacted, I could definitely see that, trends to happen much more quickly. I guess, as we potentially approach some record-breaking unemployment over the long-term, many marketers and marketing technologists are going to find themselves in transition and in the job market. When you’re looking at folks in your realm of marketing, and if you were hiring someone for your team, what are some of the underlying skills that are most important for folks seeking employment to emphasize, to remain competitive?
Tapas Bose:
It depends upon what their choice is. Let’s say they are content designers, or they deal with content, and content designers also have to be marketers, in a way, because they have to create the content on that. One area of growth is content, creating content for and creating marketing content. The second area of growth is search optimization. Search optimization has become key. The third is, being able to work on social channels. Previously, most of the marketing used to be emails, and some SMS. But there, over the last few years, even more accelerated after the pandemic, has been the move towards social media channels, and newer and newer social media channels, that there is. And again, you have to develop the ability to choose the right social media channel for your purposes. For example, things like cooking-related stuff is more relevant for Pinterest, for example. Or if you’re appealing to a very trendy kind of upbeat portion of the Gen Z generation, then TikToK might be one of them. Depending upon that, the knowledge of social media channels and the ability to work around those, is becoming increasingly important.
Of course, needless to say, their knowledge of building some amount of technology awareness, particularly cloud and SaaS platforms. Because these days, almost entirely, marketing technology has shifted to either cloud-based platforms, which are partly home-built and partly acquired, or complete SaaS platforms, in which the using company has really no need to do anything with the platform. It just uses it, it’s just a user. But you have to have awareness of cloud technologies and SaaS platforms. And that’s what I think a lot of marketers who are more traditional, I think, need to develop. The other is, and this was always known, that you have to be very cognizant and very knowledgeable about the customer journey. You have to be more and more aware of the customer journey so that you can orchestrate it across the different channels through which you interact with this customer. The knowledge of a product and a personal specific customer journey is becoming more and more important for marketers to develop.
They have to know the product, they have to know what is the way that the customer buys a product, what are the stages he goes through, and so on. And how do we move them from one stage to the other, or the touch point and interactions. Previously, we could do a lot with in-person interactions, now that since that is not possible, you have to orchestrate it across different channels. That’s why it is very important. These are some of the newer areas that I think marketers would be good to get themselves trained. And there’s always some new things you can pick up. And it’s not difficult to pick up because there is wealth of information which is available free on the internet.
Brian Erickson:
Really, technology is changing so rapidly that you kind of need to have a process in place to continually reeducate yourself on the latest trends, right?
Tapas Bose:
Even if you are employed.
Brian Erickson:
Yeah, that’s the time to do it, right? Especially if you’re employed, to stay ahead of it, rather than have to catch up with it. But I think just keeping in that mindset, that knowledge is out of date every 60 days or 90 days, right? You’ve got to refresh it, I think that’s a great piece of advice.
Tapas Bose:
Yes. You have to piece together the different parts of technology because there are so many marketing platforms which work together. And then of course, how it will serve the ultimate customer, and each customer is different, or each person of customer is different.
Brian Erickson:
Yep. As technologists and as marketers, easy to lose sight of, but the most important thing to stay focused on. Awesome. Well, Tapas, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us today.
Tapas Bose:
Thank you.
Brian Erickson:
Great. Well, this is Brian Erickson with Cardwell Beach. Thanks again for listening. And please make sure to check back for more senior marketers sharing their perspectives, on what marketing will look like in a post-COVID-19 world.
